Top Creek Stables

[Haleigh Sharphowl]

Given the recent events, you all probably saw this coming.

Before you even CONSIDER replying to this thread, read Quinn's post on the Churchill Downs forums here. You do not need to be logged in to see it (otherwise I would've posted it here). Before any of you start bitching, I have Quinn's permission to discuss this matter on the TREC forums.

churchilldowns.proboards105.com/index.cgi?board=sp&action=display&thread=1181162770&page=1

I don't really know Ramruma personally. I'm not going to claim to. We've probably spoken two times, tops.

However, I DO know a LOT of people that Ramruma has stepped on and/or pissed off in the past few months. And this makes the issue personal.

The eye color thing is just complete bullshit... it has always been a sort of unspoken agreement in Furcadian feral horse dreams that eye color is the one thing that the realism rule does not apply to. For YEARS, people have been branding all of their alts with the same eye color (like Quinn and Kal/Note do) or have given a special color to an alt or two (like Chaos does). I don't really understand where Ramruma, a relative newbie to the Furcadian horse scene (and don't start throwing numbers around, I really don't want to know -- let's face it, none of you knew who she was a year ago) gets off deciding that she's going to BANISH people based on eye color.

To some of you, this may sound like the pot calling the kettle black, because I have always mandated realistic colors in my dreams, much to the chagrin of my 'enemies'. However, I certainly was NOT the first to do so -- I freely admit borrowing that rule from dreams like THR because I totally agreed with the concept. No one likes piss-yellow palominos. Nobody. And I'm certainly not picking on Ramruma to try something new, because hell, everything is new at some point. But this eye color rule was NOT in the web forum rules as of last night (and I hunted and hunted). So Quinn and Blues are being banished for not following a rule that isn't even in writing anywhere.

I'm also seeing huge issues with their staff a la IFS in its very early stages. (I hope you don't take offense to that, Sage, but I know you and I have talked about how BAD the original staffing situation was at IFS. <3) Incredibly rude and bossy, inconsistencies with the rules, and so on and so forth. I have seen enough examples of this through log files that I don't even need to go in there to experience it myself. In actuality, I have -- I have been told to cut the OOC at auctions when the staff members go ON AND ON AND ON in OOC. I mean, to the point where you want to pick up the monitor and chuck it at a big tree a few times in sheer frustration. My horrible, disruptive OOC, I might add, was pointing out the UNREALISTIC QUALITIES of the horses they ALLOWED to auction, such as a racing AND jumping Appaloosa. You figure that one out.

And my final issue with Ramruma is the way Sage and Scarlet Fire have been treated. This has been brought to my attention numerous times by numerous people. Sage CREATED Top Creek Stables. Let me repeat that, since it seems to be forgotten. The original PATCHWORK, DRAGONSPEAK, and MAP was created by SAGE. Ramruma bought it off of her fair and square, which is totally fine. I know Ramruma has never outright claimed that she made TCS, and I'm not accusing her of that. But Sage deserves a TON more credit than she is getting and a TON of thank yous. I don't care that you paid for the dream, I don't care how much you paid for the dream, you still profusely thank people who create customized dreams for you. On top of this, I have heard that ideas that Scarlet Fire came up with for VRS and she "thought about out loud" were promptly copied by Ramruma and added into TCS. There is no way to copyright or protect an idea, of course, but this is still just low.

In closing... Ramruma, you are stepping on a lot of toes with your latest actions. You are not well known in the equestrian community and your actions towards some of the friendliest, most well-intentioned people in the entire game are absolutely appalling. I know for a fact many of us would've been ready and willing to help you in any way, shape, or form we could have. Believe it or not, we actually are very welcoming to people trying to start their own dreams. It means another place for us to compete, another barn for our alts to live at. When the community grows, we all grow. Maybe by taking some advice from those who have been there, done that, and lived to tell about it would HELP you rather than hinder you.

Until then, don't expect to see a LOT of TREC regulars around TCS.

[Sasha Adrik]

:\ I don't have much to say to this except that quite personally for the short time I've known Ramruma and TCS I'm not fond of it, nor her staff, nor her herself a lot of the time.

Quite frankly I have been there a few times and from what I've seen in my times there I do not want to be around it or her nor anything else regarding it. I bet that if I put Cha in TCS I'd get mauled for her eye color as well considering that Cha has amethyst eyes (the color Furc says, whatever) and ZOMG IT'S NOT RELAISTIC. Whoop-de-fucking-doo-da, who gives a crap about something so small as eye color? There's my rant for the day.

[scarlet]

Hokay. First off, I want to say that Ram and I have infact been friends for a great deal of time. But I must also say that there are a few things that she has done that have made me extremely unhappy, confused, and frustrated.

When TCS was in its raw sculpting, she showed me the dream. From then on, all she could do was speak of TCS and all its greatness. This began to frustrate me. I began to think of how beautiful TCS was compared to any of my dreams; and it made me extremely depressed. Soon, the only topic she could think of was TCS and would slam it in my face numerous times. We got in a horrid fight over it, which made me even more upset. She was amazingly fun and wonderful before TCS. From then on, things changed.

We made up, but then of course another fight brewed. She was taking in MY patch clients. I had made a dream called Raven's Willow Stables as a commission. The person that commissioned me had a few more things he wanted to change/adjust, and I told him I needed some time to fix them up. Then, he whispered me one day and said it was taken care of. Ram had taken him as her own client. She used MY patches to create a new dream for him and I was given 0 credit till I had a stern conversation with the owner of the dream. I was more upset about that then I have EVER been. Ever.

Once more, I apologized to Ram. We made up, and things re-adjusted back to normal. I was happy; but I still felt angered. I showed her a rough layout for my new dream, VRS. She got a thorough view of the dream and nipped a few of my "ideas." a week or so later, she had a new dream idea. It inclueded many of MY ideas for VRS. Though the dream never fell through, I still felt plagarised.

I needed a new layout for VRS, so I sent Ram a few of the patches and she made a new layout for me. Afterwards, she told me she added a breeding barn to TCS. The doors to the breeding stalls looked EXTREMELY similar if not EXACTLY the same as VRS's.

I love Ram very much. And I care about her truely as a friend. But she has hurt me in ways that are hard for me to take. Never had I experienced such dream drama in my life. It was unfortunate that TCS had changed her so much. I wish the old, happy Ram was back. The care-free one. Perhaps all this never would've happend. Ram, if you read this, know that I really do care about you. But you have hurt me. And you have hurt many others as well.

~Emmy.

[audreynitto]

It wasn't my intention to step on any toes, as you all know this is my first dream, I'm bound to make mistakes.

All I have to say is No. Sage did NOT do TCS' DS, you can ask her about that yourself. =) The night of its opening I stayed up and did it because she didn't send me the finished file. I had to finish up the map (though it was mostly done) and do the DS all that night because I'd been waiting on her e-mail 'til the last minute. It has slowly/gradually expanded over time as I learned new things, and Sheena and Shaadow helped me with it A LOT. I'd of not been able to do much of the complicated things without their help. That's what the whole fight was about between us in the first place.

You can ASK Sage about this.

Scarlet - John did those stalls for me before you'd even SHOWN me VRS, so whatever. You can ask John about that. =) As for Raven's Willow, I didn't do anything wrong. I gave him a new layout and barn walls. Why wouldn't I have used the patches present? They were his to use in his dream..

The eye thing isn't in the RULES, it is my over-controlling staff, which I've been trying to handle, as I said, I'm new to this whole thing, I'm trying my best not to piss anyone off. I've never once heard a complaint about the eye color problem until today at CD, I was oblivious to it.. I've never ONCE banished someone for it.

Why can't you direct these complaints DIRECTLY to me instead of posting things behind my back? I really don't get it.

And what ideas did I STEAL?! it is basically the same as when it first opened, only expanded to allow for more horses.

That's all. Have a good one.

[Faux]

Before I call it a night, I think I'll throw in a bit of my unneeded comments. ;D

I don't go to TCS often, really. If I do go there, it's ALWAYS because a good friend of mine is entered in a show or race or whatever. And even then, I'm not too fond of going.

The staff is strict and pretty much suck at their OOC job. They don't understand when to take in advice or that they need it. They're not CORRUPT, though. They're just awful staff. Corrupt is when they intentionally try to screw things over so it tips in their favor. Awful is when their idiotic and have a stick too high up their asses to notice the people beneath their noses.

Senderra, it isn't hard to control them. It really, really isn't. Good dream owners attempt to keep friendly environments and befriend everyone. Great dream owners attempt to keep friendly environments and befriend those who deserve it.

They're YOU'RE staff. Don't you dare say you can't control them. So they get angry with you. Whatever. That's their problem. It's YOUR dream, thus YOU control it, and YOU control who works in it. They LISTEN to you. In case you haven't read Quinn's rant, she pointed out that your staff backed off when you told them to.

As rude as it sounds, trust me when I say a lot of people are ass-kissers. They'll bend to your will if it means keeping their power and social status. This doesn't include everyone, however, as you may have that one spoiled brat who throws a fit and fights back. So defend your position as dream owner. Tell them to get with it or get out.

That's all I really felt like including. As the owner of a dream alongside my good friend, and staff in many prestigious, hard-working, elite, and/or older dreams, I've been in similar positions. One dream I worked at for over half a year, the dream owner was almost NEVER there. It was an extremely popular feral wolf dream, and I had the highest position in the staff heirarchy, alongside of two others with that title. Thus, it was my job to enforce the rules among staff (which, there were a lot) and guests alike, as well as banish and eject when I saw fit.

I didn't want to, at first. I worried people would hate me and hate the dream, and stop coming. Au contrair, the numbers barely changed, and the atmosphere grew calmer and better until the dream went corrupt and died. But, that's a whole different story. x) A little irrelevant lesson in dictatorship.

In any case, my whole point with this was that you, as the dream owner, are the only one who can make a difference.

If you don't have the guts to dig in and kick your staff into gear, they'll never change, and neither will the dream.


And with this, dad is yelling, so I am off~!

[Haleigh Sharphowl]

Okay, so Sage didn't do the DS, my mistake. However, she still did the map and the patches, which are by far the hardest parts of a horse dream. Your dream does not contain any complicated DS, nothing with very hard variables, arrays, etc. It is pretty much just DSing doors and making emits. Oh jesus. How hard.

You should always, ALWAYS ask before altering any other patch artist's artwork, ESPECIALLY for compensation. I just did a jump on commission for Emmy. If she wants edits made to it, I expect her to come to me. I made the patch for her. I did not give her permission to let other people edit it. (Not to mention, I do edits on all of my commissions for free/a ridiculously low price anyway, as I'm sure Sage would have.) Basically, YOU got paid to do a job that was rightfully Emmy's.

And there really is no excuse for "over controlling staff". They are YOUR staff. They are not in charge, YOU are. Give them the boot or train them better. They are a reflection of you. Fire them or take their share away if they are over controlling. You can't be everybody's best friend in this situation. If this were my dream, I would've canned John Grady Cole and Demini immediately, no questions asked, with logfiles like that. The OOC/IC line you guys draw is ridiculous. Your staff is allowed to blabble ON AND ON AND ON AND ON with OOC chatter during RPs and auctions, but if I point out a realism error, since you guys seem to have a stick shoved SO far up your ass about realism, I get snarled at for using too much OOC. Rein them in or take their power away.

I posted this complaint here because, to be perfectly honest, I don't really want to hear what your staff has to say about it, because they are too self-centered to have any sense about the situation. Very few of your staff members are active anywhere else in the equestrian community, so I doubt that they can look at things with an open mind. From the looks of things, I would probably just end up being IP banned from your message board anyway since my character's name isn't realistic enough for you guys.

You'd have to ask Scarlet for specifics, but she told me that several ideas that she came up with for VRS that involved feeding and a couple of other things suddenly cropped up in TCS after she mentioned them.

[Amanda Roswell]

Wow, all I can really say is wow. See, I generally stick around dreams that are familiar to me. TREC, CG, VRS, etc. This is why I'm so behind on all this drama.

That, and I'm dealing with my own TRS bullshit now.

[audreynitto]

lmao I didn't get paid! I did it for free... Sethe was upset that she didn't finish what she said she'd do, and I offered my help. That is ALL.

Everything that is in TCS now was planned from the beginning, don't believe me? Ask Sage. I haven't stolen anything from anyone.

Feeders/hay switching to empty was in the plans from the git-go.

As for my staff, I know they are my responsibility, I'm not trying to say otherwise. I would just appreciate it if you would make these complaints directly to me. I wouldn't ban you, I hear ALL complaints out and try my best to see them corrected.

[Haleigh Sharphowl]

Whether you got paid or not, it is still the principle of the thing. You will notice that when some patches are released to the public, i.e., via Roamheart or the official patch archive, the readme strictly notes NOT to edit it for any reason. If there is no readme, you should always ask, and it's not like Emmy disappeared from the planet or that you couldn't have contacted her if you wanted to. As a patch artist, this bothers me.

It's just very fishy that ideas that Emmy had broadcasted for VRS suddenly showed up in TCS very soon thereafter. It's like me announcing "We're going to hold the Kentucky Derby again this year!" and some other dream quickly comes up with a Kentucky Derby in their dream. (Oh, wait, forgive me -- that already happened...) But I digress.

I have always posted my complaints on this forum when I don't trust posting them on other forums. As I said before, I didn't seek the opinions of your staff, so I didn't post this on your forum. I don't think this is "behind anyone's back" -- you're practically a regular on this forum as you advertise your events here, and I don't think this forum is hard to find or kept secret.

[audreynitto]

I didn't edit it patches.. I added my own...


Like I said, I didn't 'steal' any 'ideas' from Scarlet Fire, if you find this so hard to believe you should speak with Sage. Just about everything that TCS has now was thought of and planned from day one. =)

Emptying hay racks, opening tack boxes, carriage rides, the works. (this is only some of the stuff..)

This is me not stealing her walls.

[Kisco]

You know, I didn't really want to post to this forum because I don't want to be involved in agruments or debates or rants or whatever. But I just want to point out something that is very clear in alot of peoples minds.

Why are we fighting over the whole 'idea' thing anyway. I mean yea I did get on Sage's case a while back about it but I learned to get over it. Thing is folks, carriage rides, emptying hay racks, food bins that disappear of feed that sort of things. That's just non-sense. I mean, imagine if FurN dreams fought over people having the doors lock. That just be crazy don't ya think? I do.

My point is everyone has had those ideas at some point or time in their dreamweaving of equine dreams on furcadia. I've always wanted to do carriage or cart stuff, I even have a half finished cart that's been sitting on my computer for over two years now. But I wouldn't yell at anyone else for doing the same thing. Your all looking to be unique and no offense but .. horse farms really aren't like that. I mean it's not like there's just ONE riding academy or there isn't just ONE race track or whatever. So stealing ideas is a pretty foolish thing to fight over.

So everyone has the same thing? You know what I think? I think that it's not the fact you have something that someone else has, it's the creativity that was put into doing it. Like for example, Wynd did this nifty thing with riding DS now using the lead and follow; see that's cool! I like that idea it adds for her dreams uniqueness. Ram has the cart pulling DS in TCS, that's way cool. For the first time on Furcadia someone did it. I did for the harness racing dream I had last year too. I guess I just want people to know that, a horse farm -has- alot of these things you guys are fighting over so much. So .. I just don't see the point. As for everything else mentioned above, I have no comment. I will not pick a side, as the people involved in this know how I stand privately.

[Haleigh Sharphowl]

I just think that borrowing concepts from someone else deserves credit.

If someone uses the lead/follow riding method that I have, I'd like a mention in the credits for showing how it is done. Do I have any 'legal right' to a mention in the credits? No, not really. But it's the polite thing to do.

I'm not going to argue this any more until I hear from Emmy or Sage on this thread since the ball is now in their court. I don't know if Emmy showed anything to Ram about VRS before she sent her the dream, etc.

I'm still on the "innocent until proven guilty" thing and Ram and I have talked and she knows that I'm not outright accusing her of "OMG YOU STOLE FROM THEM". I know Ram is trying hard here to make amends in this situation and not step on any toes, and she's taking some very promising steps forward.

[Sage]

Yikes...

Alrighty, reading over this, I will clear up the air and hopefully shed light on a few people that may be shadey as to how I handle/handled this situation(s) in the past and presently.

First, I'd like to not sense any attitude coming from Ramruma. Point being, I don't deserve none of that shit. After climbing mountains of bitching friends whom shouldn't have been involved with the delay in patches in the first place, to the piles of shit I've had to wade through in order to repair what weak and feebled relationship we have possibly still standing today, I quite frankly don't want to hear any smartass comments coming from the one person I've jumped major hurtles for.

I've been known, personally, to go out of my way for people and create things for free at no charge and within 5 to 10 minutes. TCS started off of Soft Willow Farms as a base layout (this dream was used as a back up when IFS lost its walls for that short time). Building upon that, Ram had gave ideas, suggestions and ultimately the pictures and etc. for the things necessary she thought to be placed in her new equestrian dream. When I started TCS, I was new to my own job as a Patcher and DreamWeaver. (Only a true Patcher or DreamWeaver will understand me when I relate this.)

You might have had the ideas, Ram -- but I did the work. Work that, need I remind you, was skinned off for a cool $5 bucks ultimately for the finished product I could produce. (At the time, for all of you readers' information, my dad was going through some HORRID heart conditions. He's had two open heart surgeries. You tell me which comes first -- a stupid fuckin' computer game? Or my father? Decision isn't that hard to make.)

I did end up giving her what finished product there was of TCS. And on top of that, I was badgered, beaten, accused of scamming, friendships broken because of lies, assumptions and everything else the honest person must crawl through in order to keep my name safe and my dignity in tack. With all of my father's problems going on, I managed to leak on Furcadia here and there and invest only an hour or so of my free time. Not once on my website does the contract ever state -- "Whenever I'm on Furcadia, I'll sell my soul/free time to making your shit."

Ramruma ultimately told alllll of her staff, friends, strangers, the NPCs', about how I just up and left her with no warning, no reasons why. Family comes first. Sorry.

So after shovelling through that shit and wiping the sweat off my brow, I still had to cultivate what was left of Ram's and I's relationship. It hasn't been the best since then... quite frankly, I don't really care.

I'm no longer a dreamweaver as I *haven't* been given a lot of credit for not only TCS, but other patches I've done as well.

If you want to play the card - 'I stayed up late to finish the DS', Ram... do you feel any sense of gratitude? Like... you did something constructive for the dream? Don't blame what's out of my hands right back on me, that's simply unfair.

Thank god someone understands where I'm coming from. @ Wyndlily.

TCS staff sucks. Sorry, but I've owned the shittiest staffed horse dream in all of Furcadia at one point of time, I have ever God-Given right to say that. I call it how I see it. Red's an ass, his little worm's an ass, they're all ass' there. Don't even think about concerning a different thought about TCS while in the same dream as the owner... the staff goes for the throat.

To me? That's pathetic.

-- Sage

[Kal]

You would think that after all this drama, the TCS staff would be better. I have to admit, practically EVERYONE there has been nice.
...Except someone.

You say, ".."
You say, "how'd i end up here?"
Demini: I moved you.
You say, "why? o.o"
Demini: Because I can?

I was simply minding my own business in the OOC area on Gilbert, when, out of nowhere, Demini went ahead and pushed me into the paddock!
I would have PREFERRED it if he'd asked me to move. Maybe that's his special "spot"? I don't know! I definitely do NOT appreciate being pushed around just because this person has "power", or just because he "wanted to".

[Sage]

I consider myself fortunate to have friends like Wyndlily and Sasha and all of the people who I know who you are; but just like me to not specifically know your names at this confusing state of my brain at the moment.

I made Top Creek Stables.

I made the patches, the stalls, the barn walls, the items, and the enviornment/atmosphere. I made the dream.

Some people will hit me right here and say, "I made the DS.", "I made the rest of the patches you didn't finish.", etc. etc. Whatever, I say, whatever. We all know who's behind the driving imagination for you to create that dragonspeak, those few patches that I ultimately thought of but you finished.

I know that earlier I spoke to some of the TREC go'ers about how I thought it was somehow unprofessional for me to be banned on one dream baby-sitter's list but not banned on the actually dream owner's list. Some of you didn't necessarily agree with that statement nor did you find it of any importance. I'm not pointing at any of you or about to start a needless arguement. But all I will and can say is you make a dream for somebody and have all of your dignity somehow raped from you because of they're inability to keep their mouth shut.

Maybe I'm too passionate about this? Maybe what I'm trying to say is old news? I'm sure I'm not the only dreamweaver who's been kicked in the crotch. But this bothers me.

Francis said I was banned from his dream because he 'simply doesn't like me'. I beg to ask; why? Do you not like me because I called your ass out numerous times in front of Ram? Ultimately making her give you a talking-to? If she didn't, then she's lying to not only me, but her patrons for asscessing her staff members.

I shouldn't be treated like this.

I no longer am a dreamweaver. I closed that shop a few days ago. I don't have the time, patience, or the sanity anymore to deal with peoples' assumptions.

The attitudes... egh... are so not worth it.

-- Sage